Table Talk: Ahsoka (2023)

Anton: Anders, this fall we were texting back and forth about the Disney Star Wars live-action miniseries, Ahsoka, which premiered at the end of August and ended its run in early October. Created by Dave Filoni, who helmed the popular Clone Wars and Rebels animated children’s shows and who also had a hand in The Mandalorian, Ahsoka explores later events in the life of Ahsoka Tano (played by Rosario Dawson), who is the former Jedi Padawan of Anakin Skywalker and now a sorta-Jedi, stoic lone warrior. Events take place sometime after The Mandalorian Season 2, and around Season 3—at least as far as I can make things out. (The exact chronology of these shows is unclear to me.)

I think both of us mainly watched the series for our children. Mine are certainly more familiar with Filoni’s Clone Wars than myself. One of my sons is a big fan of that show. But I also think, Anders, that you and I have different takes on Ahsoka, so I thought we might want to just hash it out in a table talk before the year closes.

Let’s start with general impressions. What did you think of Disney’s latest Star Wars TV show? Were you satisfied?

Anders: Early on, I thought it was pretty bad, to be honest. And I don’t think it’s just because I never watched Rebels.

Anton: Well, that has to be a big part of all this. But we’ll save that for now. Go on.

Anders: Ahsoka is Marvel-mode Star Wars, where you need to previously care about characters such as Ezra Bridger and Sabine Wren from another story in order to care about this story. But that’s a critique that could be levelled at a lot of franchise fare these days.

The biggest thing for me was that the show was also kind of flat and limply paced. At times, the pacing grinds to a halt in order to fit the structure of a television show, or episodes end anticlimactically. I also thought that the acting was, frankly, pretty weak overall. I find some moments ok, but even Rosario Dawson’s Ahsoka is fairly one-note in sticking to the stoic delivery. But even then, I do think Dawson is so much better than the other actors that it makes them seem even worse. Like they’re in a different show. Mary Elizabeth Winstead in green makeup is awful as the Twi’lek general, Hera. I was shocked that she’s one of the better known actors in this series since she’s so bad.

Anton: I think our early text conversations conveyed as much on my part. I was not impressed after the first episode. (My wife, who knows even less about Clone Wars and Rebels than I do, says she had no idea what was going on during the first episode.) The second episode began to do some things, like building atmosphere, that worked for me, even if some of the character stuff was still weak and the pace groaned along.

Frankly, most of the new characters—or I should say, the main characters who return from Rebels and are new to live-action Star Wars—are kind of lame. Sabine (Natasha Liu Bordizzo) starts off very annoying but becomes tolerable. Hera and her child are not interesting. Ezra (Eman Esfandi), who is built up a lot before we meet him, is just some dude.

But somewhere around the end of episode 3, when the heroes are on the red-leafed tree planet and the bad guys are preparing the Hyperspace ring, I felt something. There was a scale and grandeur to the event of going to get Thrawn from another galaxy. There was a strangeness, maybe even sublimity to that planet, and to the idea of another galaxy beyond the “galaxy far, far away.” In other words, the event felt like an important event in the storyworld, which is a quality I find lacking in much Disney Star Wars TV.

I have my issues with the Star Wars sequel trilogy. I’ve liked The Mandalorian, even if it has declined, but that show is best for its characters. Especially with Season 3 of The Mandalorian, it seems terrible at not giving the proper time and attention to make things seem that important. It moves too quickly and in different directions to ever generate much atmosphere. I’m thinking of the truncated exploration of Mandalore, etc.

I also wrote this year about my disappointment with the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, so it’s strange that this particular show, Ahsoka, crept up on me and made me like it in the end, especially since I think it does have problems in terms of both conception and execution. So, I have my reservations about Ahsoka—I have mixed feelings overall, really—but at times it tapped into something I haven’t felt about Star Wars for quite some time.

How Ahsoka Compares to Other Star Wars Stories

Anders: I’m not sure the show ever got me there any more than, say, the Mythosaur teased in Mandalorian Season 3. Sure, as Ahsoka went on there were ideas that I found more intriguing, like the Purrgil—the giant hyperspace whales that were also teased in Mandalorian Season 3 when Grogu sees them out the window. But even then, once we got to the planet that Thrawn was on and they introduced the Night Sisters and all these things plucked from the old Expanded Universe novels, things that should have got me feeling more, it all fell a bit flat.

I think that there are potentially some huge and interesting things here, like the Mortis Gods from Clone Wars teased at the end and Baylan Skoll’s search for the origins of the Force, etc. So I get where you’re feeling that sense of grandeur, but sadly I thought the delivery and the way these things were teased undercut what should have been a bigger impact. I think that the worst thing for me is that it’s not so much that Ahsoka is a bad story or just treading water. It’s not. It’s just that the show feels small in terms of its filmmaking.

Anton: Really? I would say that The Mandalorian feels much smaller to me. The Mandalorian feels like TV. In contrast, I think there is a scale to some of these compositions. The opening title sequence has a galactic grandeur to it, both with the map imagery and the music. And what you describe as a grinding pace allows the show to actually build atmosphere at times instead of just jumping from plotline to plotline, particularly as the show finds its way several episodes into the run.

Anders: Look, compare Ahsoka to Andor, which in many ways is the thing many complain about: that Andor is looking back at the era of the Empire and Rebellion, it has familiar characters from the movies like Cassian and Mon Mothma—but it’s just so well made.

Anton: That’s actually a blindspot for me. I haven’t seen it yet.

Anders: I waited on Andor for a while, since I was a bit burnt out on Star Wars and the initial raves from people who I didn’t feel were big Star Wars fans were a bit off-putting to me. But Andor is just a good show. It doesn’t matter that it’s Star Wars. It’s well-acted, super suspenseful, builds narrative, and the characters feel real and fleshed out in ways that Ahsoka never does.

Anton: To be sure, there are ungainly aspects to Ahsoka. Parts don’t entirely work and Filoni does seem to have some difficulties telling a strong live-action narrative. I do think he finds his way as things move along, but the entry point is really awkward.

I want to briefly backtrack to your comment about MCU-style Star Wars. Ahsoka expects the audience to know so much, just like a Marvel movie. This probably explains why my kids were pretty invested in the show. But I thought it was a strange approach, and one that doesn’t help to bring new viewers into the storyworld, especially since they were moving from children’s animation to a live-action miniseries. I understand that in medias res is the mode of Star Wars, that throwing the viewer into the storyworld, but you can do that well and you can do that poorly, and I thought episodes 1 and 2 did that poorly.

Anders: Absolutely. It makes things feel smaller and more penned in, weirdly. But it’s also the way it’s written.

Anton: I thought The Book of Boba Fett ran on the fumes of that popular character in Star Wars lore. I certainly don’t think you can begin a live-action show on the fumes of an animated show from a few years ago. Fortunately, I do think Ahsoka builds some of its own energy around the Hyperspace ring, and Thrawn being exiled to another galaxy.

Furthermore, Ahsoka runs on the title of a character who doesn’t appear in the original Star Wars movies. In my books, the real appeal of Clone Wars is that it tells extra stories about beloved figures, namely, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda. Ahsoka isn’t the selling feature of the show in my view. The best part here is when we get Hayden Christensen’s Anakin again. Or when we get something that feels entirely new.

Dave Filoni’s Star Wars

Anton: We have to talk about Dave Filoni. Filoni shoots the show more like Lucas, but it also has a lurching woodenness which at times also recalls Lucas. 

Anders: I mean, Filoni doesn’t direct every episode . . . 

Anton: True, so he directs how many?

Anders: He directed the first episode, and the fifth: “Shadow Warrior,” the Anakin flashback episode. But I agree he’s more classical in his shot construction than some directors using more medium shots, even as the fifth episode is the most unconventional of all the episodes.

At the same time, there’s just something about this show, especially in contrast to Andor, that feels fake and stagey. Like cosplay more than real filmmaking at moments, especially early on. It lacks a certain je ne sais quoi.

Anton: Where I give Dave Filoni the most credit is that, as the show’s creator, he does the most bold things I have seen in post-Lucas Star Wars, such as having the Anakin flashbacks and another galaxy. And those actually work, whereas when someone like J. J. Abrams strays from the original Star Wars, it’s either batshit crazy or stupid. I thought the scenes in the Jedi underworld were the most successful, and very different from things I have seen in a Star Wars show. We learned something new about a core character and it worked for me. Ahsoka is conceptually more bold than most Disney Star Wars, and I think many of these bold elements are the parts that work best. Such as the fifth episode. At the same time, I think Filoni’s long experience working with Star Wars means he is able to create believable additions to the storyworld, in a way that many other creators, such as Rian Johnson in my books, just completely fail. 

Speaking of J. J. Abrams, Star Wars creators need to give up on the idea of maps to characters. It really makes no sense. It’s a good example of why I am not overall super enthusiastic about this show. There are too many narrative pieces I don’t like. Too many characters that are just weak.

Anders: Yeah, the map to a character story idea is really burned out and nonsensical. I think that some of those ideas, especially the Anakin flashback episode, are some of the better things in the series.

Anton: Anders, I know you have complained about the constant use of pseudo-Jedi by Filoni.

Anders: Yes! Like it’s getting pretty ridiculous here. I mean, Baylan and his Padawan are kind of poorly fit into this world. So, this is a new character, a “Dark Jedi” who was just sitting out during the whole Galactic Rebellion? He makes no sense. It’s almost as bad as the Inquisitor’s in Obi-Wan being able to take on Vader, as you noted in your piece on the show.

I get that people want to have Jedi again, but just saying “oh, here’s one more that escaped the purge” just makes the old movies seem less and less essential.

Anton: I hear what you are saying. They probably do need to put a moratorium on pseudo-Jedi characters, but given that this show centres around a sorta-Jedi, Ahsoka, it makes more sense to have Force-adepts to engage with her. I think the Inquisitors as pseudo-Jedi is more awkward, since it raises the question of whether the Empire tried to purge or repurpose the Force-sensitive.

While I would happily toss out the lame Padawan girl, Shin Hati (Ivanna Sakhno), who has zero personality, I actually really like Baylan Skoll. He’s possibly my favourite character in the series. His type of world-weariness is something different in Star Wars. He’s not just cynical or jaded. He has wisdom and experience and also a strange philosophy he seems to be acting on. I’m really sorry that Ray Stevenson passed away and won’t be able to reprise the role, since I think there is a lot of potential with the character.

The Portrayal of Grand Admiral Thrawn

Anton: Now I have to ask, what do you think about the show’s portrayal of Grand Admiral Thrawn?

Anders: Since the Timothy Zahn books were my gateway into Star Wars fandom beyond the movies back in the 90s, I was excited to see a live-action version of the character. But ultimately, I think he’s only fine. I get that they were going for the Sherlock Holmes-meets-Napoleon aspect of the character, but I’d like them to have dug into that more. Thrawn is under-utilized, assuming a familiarity that the show hasn’t earned, though again, I haven’t watched Rebels, so didn’t know how much they established there.

Lars Mikkelsen, brother of Mads, is fine in the role. I get they picked him mostly because he was the voice actor on the show, and Filoni has enjoyed bringing actors back this way with Bo Katan, etc. I think I might have picked someone with even more presence. Jason Isaacs would have made a good Thrawn, drawing on his fantasy portrayal of Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter.

Anton: I agree that the character of Thrawn is ultimately underused. I mean, there is such a build-up to the introduction of the character in the season—and it’s clear this is intentional. You build the myth of the man in the storyworld by having everyone talk about him before he appears on screen. Everyone is talking about Thrawn, Thrawn, how he’s so amazing, and how he’ll destroy the New Republic if he returns. But the show doesn’t really deliver on that, in part because they appear to be saving his real return for the next season. I think Mikkelsen does a fine job though. 

So, after Ahsoka, where are you at with Disney Star Wars? I’m curious to see a second  season of Ahsoka, with the hope that it will use Thrawn to his full potential. I’ll probably catch up with Andor sometime, based on your strong recommendation. But, honestly, I’m also kind of happy to just rewatch the six Lucas films and let my interest in following the latest Star Wars streaming content dissipate, as I’ve done with the MCU for the most part in recent years.

Anders: Yeah, I look forward to the next season of Andor next year, and I’m curious if and when they’ll ever do another movie. I’ll probably watch a second season of Ahsoka, assuming my boys are interested. Honestly, I wonder if Ahsoka would have been better served as a 2-hour movie, trimming some fat, doing more standalone work on the story, and improving the pacing and the special effects. But it seems Disney is content to use Star Wars as fodder for their streaming service now. What a squandering of a once great storyworld.

Ahsoka (2023, United States)

Created by Dave Filoni; starring Rosario Dawson, Ray Stevenson, Natasha Liu Bordizzo, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Ivanna Sakhno, Eman Esfandi, Diana Lee Inosanto, Lars Mikkelsen, and Hayden Christensen.

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